Team Members

  • Hud Wahab
  • Chris Kennell

Social Media

We are here to detect early phase of heart failure using wearable technology.

Venture Concept Overview


Chronic heart failure (HF) is a major and growing public health issue that affects the Australian population. Yet, public awareness of the condition remains low. HF is associated with high mortality and economic cost (est. $1 bil in 2000). From the Canberra Heart Study, not only are 6% of Australians estimated to have clinical HF but a high proportion had not been previously diagnosed. Australian doctors find early diagnosis difficult to determine due to lack of specific symptoms or masking by other diseases. The progression of chronic HF leads to recurrent hospitalisations, which is both a major health care cost and major preventable cost (2/3 of expenditure); 25% are readmitted after 30 days and about 50% within the next six months. This tendency will continue to rise with the ageing population. Thus, understanding the HF epidemiology and the correct diagnosis is of major importance.



Wearable heart rate monitor (HRM) facilitates continuous and long-term extrahospital patient care. It encourages patients’ compliance that will help doctors assess their status progressions during follow-ups. The engaged interactions between the patient and doctor would improve assessments and monitoring thus maintain optimal therapy and increase probability of detecting the onset of worsening conditions. With an early detection alert system integrated with a call centre support, patients may avoid acute HF events and subsequent hospital readmissions. Thus, widespread use of such a system may save many lives and relieve pressure on the health care system.

We propose a low-cost long-term HRM that caters specifically for chronic HF patients (est. 1.3 mil) and seniors above 60 (est. 3.6 mil). Our subscription service presents data interpretations in a customer-friendly analytics app, making it meaningful and actionable. Out of 32 seniors we have spoken to, about 80% are willing to wear the HRM permanently, while price outranks privacy in terms of purchase barriers.



The SafeHeart team are young, passionate engineer and scientist seeking to empower people’s health.

Hud Wahab MSc: data analysis and management

Chris Kennell MEng (Oxon): product design and prototyping



Our vision is to be the technological arm and advocate for e-Health in Australia, originating from Canberra. With a more efficient data management in health, HF can be better understood thus increasing public awareness that it is a major public health concern that places a substantial burden on the health care system. Quantification of such a burden would allow the government to reassess national investments.



The venture is in its infancy, however we have already done considerable market research, specifically scientific literature review, potential partners and competitors. Our timeline for development is as such:

Setup: 6-12 months to finish prototyping, recruit software engineers to develop the software, design a study and begin recruiting patients

Recruitment: 1.5-2 years to recruit enough patients to achieve statistically significant results

Analysis: Data analysis variable, but 3-6 months is reasonable

Establishment: Approval for therapeutic device in 2-3 years and launch early detection alert system



We ask for $10000. A large sum of the seed grant will go into data collection; 10% in prototyping; 80% in scaling; 10% for initial legal fees. Beneficiaries will be patients, their doctors and the overall health system (reduced cost of hospitalisation etc). At present, the cost of the service will be fully carried by patients through a subscription, although there may be scope in the future to tap into some government support.

The Idea

One in six Australians is affected by cardiovascular diseases (CVD) and heart failure is the third biggest type of CVD killer [1]. Chronic heart failures (HF) due to irreversible damage of the heart require its patients to be drug-compliant typically for the remaining period of their lives. Failure to do so results in gradual deterioration of the heart’s pump functions from a non-critical compensated state to a critical decompensated state, where patients need to be admitted to the hospital or directly to the emergency department. The prevalence of reduced heart pump functions (<50% ejected fraction) account for 6% of the population (1.3 million) [2] and >10% for people aged over 65, who are estimated about 15% of the population (3.6 million) [3].

Heart disease accounts for $5 billion per year in health costs in Australia [1]. The major cost is due to hospitalisations that take up two-third of the total expenditure [4]. Recurrent HF decompensations, therefore frequency of re-admissions to the hospital can be reduced by continuous monitoring of the heart rate (HR) at home after being discharged from the hospital.

Of 500 Australians surveyed, an impressive 55% own a wearable device [5]; 47% of which are fitness bands; 34% smartwatches. We propose to build on current wearable technology to cater for continuous, long-term HR monitoring for chronic HF patients and people of ages 60 years and older. Initial efforts include market validation from medical centres, researching doctors, the older generation and their families. Specifically, we focus on interest in early adoption of the product, how the data collected can be utilised in the medical field and design of the product for reliable collection of data.

[1] Access Economics. The shifting burden of cardiovascular disease in Australia. Canberra: Access Economics Pty Ltd and the National Heart Foundation of Australia, (2005).

[2] Abhayaratna et al, Prevalence of heart failure and systolic ventricular dysfunction in older Australians: the Canberra Heart Study. Med J Aust (2006); 184: 151-154.

[3] Australian Bureau of Statist, (2012),

[4] Krum et al, Medical Journal of Australia 185 (10), 549 (2006).

[5] PwC Australia analysis (2016)

The Market

The direct customers are the chronic heart failure (HF) patients (1.3 mil or 6% of Australians) and seniors aged above 60 years (est. 3.6 mil or 15% of Australians [1]). Aside from avoiding exhaustive activities, patients with HF must be compliant to medications such as ACE inhibitors and betablockers to maintain the pumping functions of the heart [2]. However, they would have to be compliant to the doctors and to the medications. Non-compliance leads to higher risks of acute HF events. Additionally, senior patients may have logistic pains, where they have to burden their working family to bring them to the clinic for a follow-up or to replenish medications. This becomes more apparent in rural areas, where higher mortality rate has been recorded [3].

The solution we are seeking to provide is the analysis of the heart rate (HR) data collected continuously by a modified wearable HR monitor. The solution is two-fold:

Acute Care

After a HF patient is discharged from the hospital for the first time, the first follow-up would typically be within 2-4 weeks. During follow-up, the patient would spend about 1-2 hours travelling to the hospital; 3-4 hours to queue to register, to queue to see the doctor, get their vitals checked through laboratory and radiology tests; see the doctor and get clinical questions so the doctor can determine any HF decompensation symptoms. Based on the patients’ evaluations at the hospital, the recommended dosage is given and another follow-up is scheduled, typically in within 2-4 weeks.

The frequency of hospital visits varies depending on the patients compliance to the drugs and what activities they disclose to their doctors during follow-up. Once a routine is established and well-controlled, patients are advised to go see their doctors at a minimum of twice a year. However, for uncontrolled cases due to patient non-compliance, unscheduled hospital admissions with and without complications increase as motivated by the patients physical pain.

The analysis of our HR monitor will be used for early detection of HF decompensations at about 6-8 hours before it occurs. This will reduce the risk of the patient requiring critical treatment and being re-admitted to the hospital. We seek to provide a facilitation of extrahospital patient care through continuous monitoring and alert system during preliminary subclinical HF. This includes integration with logistic companies that would transport the patients to the general practitioners’ first, before transporting to the emergency department or hospital. For the hospital, this would reduce patient load in the clinic and maintain good Key Performance Indicators in the health sector, potentially increasing resource allocations for the hospital. Moreover, this would alleviate pain for patients in particular those in remote areas. For the patient,  this would potentially save 6 hrs of time, effort and cost to go to the emergency department or the hospital. Hospital admissions without complications are avg. $5600 per admission  and avg. $ $11800 per acute care visit with complications [4]. Additionally, a $2000 productivity loss is estimated per visit for the caregiver or family member who would accompany the patients journey during work hours.

Long-term Care

Patient compliance is key to maintaining optimal therapy. During clinical follow-ups the patient needs to disclose specific details of activities undertaken to the doctor for correct evaluation of potential HF symptoms. Classically, this would require the patient to log each activity as they happen in a form of a logbook, which is unlikely due to its inconvenience. We propose a service that passively logs the HR variations continuously and prompts the patients’ input of their activities associated with any unusual HR trends. The idea is to motivate data-logging with minimal effort. This will improve the maintenance of an optimal therapy.

[1] Australian Bureau of Statist, (2012),

[2] Krum et al, Medical Journal of Australia 185 (10), 549 (2006).

[3] Teng et al, BMJ Open 4 (5) (2014).

[4] National Health Performance Authority : Hospital Performance: Costs of acute admitted patients in public hospitals in 2011–12 (2015)

The Competition

The potential competitors provide either a medical alert system, a measuring device to log the heart rate (HR) or a diagnostic tool.

Emergency response alert systems such as VitalCall allow the customer to ask for assistance by pressing a button. The company would contact either caregivers or the ambulance as a response. This requires active participation of the customer, which might not be possible if the customer becomes unconscious during an acute HF decompensation.

Further potential competitors are those who provide diagnostic wearable technology in particular heart rate monitoring. PwC Australia surveys 48% of the wearable device are dedicated to fitness; 34% are smart watches [1].

Fitness wearables include e.g. Fitbit, Garmin and Xiaomi that generally feature step counting, sleep monitoring, HR monitoring, and GPS. Smart watches from Apple, Huawei and Samsung has similar features and additionally allows relays notifications from the phone onto a screen. Although these features would seem to improve the customers’ health, they work at best as a motivator to exercise as they are only approved as Class 1 measuring devices and not as diagnostic devices. That is, the benefit they deliver is more of a self-tracking tool rather than an alert system.

The additional features aside from the HR monitor are unnecessary for early detection of heart failures. Instead, it leads to larger battery consumption [2]. A device that needs to be recharged every couple of days requires a lot of effort, which e.g. seniors would unlike adopt. Additionally, about 25% of the global survey respondents do not trust any company with personal information; the most trust is given to doctors and hospitals [3]. With utilities limited to self-tracking
with the intent to motivate fitness, a healthier lifestyle is only achievable with active participation of the user. This often leads to the perception of the wearable as yet another device to use.

Our real competitors as we see it are companies such as MC10. They produce BioStamp, which is a soft microfluid assembly of sensors, circuits and radios that sticks and adapts to the skin like a band-aid. This removes any motion artefacts and deliver accurate vital measurements. The lifetime of such a device is however uncertain
and most likely it requires regular replacement. This results in a need for active participation and increased effort of the customer.

In conjunction with the hospital and medical centres, we aim to provide the customer with a passive HR monitoring and alert system for early detection of HF decompensations. This will facilitate extrahospital patient care. It also helps the customer log their HR and actively prompts input for clinical data logging with minimal effort. It would notify the caregiver and connect them to private ambulances to arrange efficient transport of the patient to the hospital. Other utilities such as an electronic patient ticketing system and medication
delivery to the homes will be integrated in the future.

[1] PwC Australia analysis (2016)

[2] Pathak et al, What is keeping my phone awake?: characterizing and detecting no-sleep energy bugs in smartphone apps, presented at the Proceedings of the 10th international conference on Mobile systems, applications, and services, Low Wood Bay, Lake District, UK, (2012)

[3] PwC global (2016)

The Vision

The development of modern health monitoring lies in the adoption of wearable technology. The utility of wearables today are limited to fitness as a motivator to exercise. Consumers have yet to perceive this of value as it is difficult to find a direct correlation to health improvements. Therefore, wearables are perceived more as yet another device to use. In comparison, keys and mobile phones are so valuable that most people can’t live without it.

By concentrating on the aspect of early detection of heart failures, we may be able to make a significant correlation to health improvements, e.g. reduced mortality rates for patients with a history of cardiovascular diseases. When successful, wearables will become a necessity like mobile phones. In Australia, the direct customers benefiting from this idea are chronic HF patients (est. 6% of the population [1]) and  seniors aged over 60 (est. 15% of the population [2]); the caregivers, mostly immediate family members would benefit indirectly with reduced stress and increased productivity (est. 30% of the population [2]); medical personnel such as doctors, specialists and nurses (est. 1% of the population) would benefit from reduced patient load in the clinic and more importantly new data on the prevalence of HF that will further drive scientific research forward.

The heart rate (HR) monitor we propose would integrate logistic companies such as taxi drivers, Uber or private ambulances to transport them to the hospital (1) for acute care prior to HF decompensations, and (2) for long-term care for follow-ups. Eventually, secondary functionalities that boosts efficient patient management such as home delivery of medications e.g. UberMeds or through national postal service; patient queue e-ticketing may be possible.

We estimate a year to finish the HR monitor prototype, another year for approval of a Class 2a device and in 3 years for its implementation for clinical studies. In 5 years, a significant correlation to health improvements may be possible following mature development of the device. Once the system is developed, other sensors such as blood pressure sensors will be included in the device. We are aware and will be committed to adopt scientific breakthroughs in nanotechnology in our devices [2]. The implementation of nanotechnology in will be feasible by 2024 [3], in line with our vision timeline.

[1] PwC global (2016)

[2] Liu et al, Materials Science and Engineering: R: Reports 112, 1-22 (2017).

[3] Ferrari et al, Nanoscale 7 (11), 4598-4810 (2015).

Mentor Pitch

In 2014, over 1.6% of all 10.5 million hospitalisations in Australia were due to heart failures and the complications arising from it [1]. To prevent this and reduce hospitalisations, the health system must shift to effectively manage risks. This requires more analysis data with regard to prevalence and costs in heart failure, which is limited [2].

We propose a wearable heart rate monitor (HRM) be given to recurrent patients in their homes once they have been discharged from the hospital. New data can be recorded in their homes, which should result in re-evaluation and diagnosis necessary for prevention. In particular, the correct dosage of medication should reduce probability of re-hospitalisation [3]. Additionally, doctors and nurses benefit from a reduced patient load in clinic. The HRM should also actively detect early symptoms of heart failures. When detected, we propose to integrate logistic companies to transport patients to the hospital or clinic, reducing stress and increasing productivity of the working patients family members, roughly estimated 30% of Australians [1].

With extensive knowledge in physics and engineering, we are confident that the prototype should be completed within a year. Our connections to medical consultants and biomedical technicians give us necessary understanding of the human physiology for application. We do recognise our weaknesses: we lack business and marketing insight; contact in bridging innovation and medical centres in Canberra; contact with caregivers in Canberra. We thus seek a mentor who has experience in developing and pushing out new ideas in conjunction with the public or private hospitals. Specifically, those with connections to cardiac research units and old folks’ homes.

[1] AIHW National Hospital Morbidity Database

[2] The shifting burden of cardiovascular disease in Australia. Canberra: Access Economics Pty Ltd and the National Heart Foundation of Australia, (2005).

[3] Krum et al, Medical Journal of Australia 185 (10), 549 (2006).

The Customer Experience

Chronic heart failure (HF) patients are aware that their health can be managed but often not cured. A consequence of chronic HF are recurrent hospitalisations; 30% patients are readmitted after a month and about 50% in six months [1]. Hospital visits are often a mundane and bleak experience, especially when coupled with long waiting times.

Telemonitoring systems using wearable SafeHeart monitor allows more frequent assessments of patients’ HF status than a clinical setting and allow re-adjustable treatments prior to HF and potentially prevent re-hospitalisations.

Aside from the pamphlets and advertisements in magazines placed in waiting rooms of hospital or clinics, we propose to place ads to target the customers where they often are; the seniors in Canberra are in e.g. Ainslie Football Club, Gungahlin Lakes, Yowani Golf Club. We are also planning to place ads at bars like e.g. Polit Bar, Parlour Wine Room. We are attempting to get funding to insurance conferences like e.g. RMIA 2017 [2], to network and find connections to those who can function as both our communication and distribution channel. Social media such as FB will also be used to target the audience of 30+, women, people with interest in health, family, bowling/football clubs and fitness.

Parallel to the setup of these communication channels, we will direct the customer to our page and include a two-minute video regarding the product and our vision. For this purpose, we would need to hire a website developer and a content manager. The customers can find the link to the product online page on the pamphlets or posters via QR codes, searching for @safeheartme, or by giving us a call directly. To ease the researching effort of the customer, we would provide content to compare the current competitors in wearable technology, e.g. price is the number one reason why Australians do not own a wearable [3].

Once early adopters decide to purchase SafeHeart monitor, they can subscribe to the service from the application or call us directly. We would also find different communication channels such as through pharmacies or clinics where chronic HF patients replenish their medication. We would also plan to exchange health data with health insurance providers as distribution channels for our product in exchange for a new scheme with lower premiums.

Once the customer has received the product, they would experience the new product in an enlightened and hopeful mood. We aim to provide this experience by informing them about the features and more in-depth information regarding our analysis methods in a manual. The manual will include setup, how-tos, FAQs, troubleshooting and contact details. More importantly, their health data will also be made transparent to them and their heart specialist correspondent. In the far future, we will attempt to setup a remote interaction system between the specialist and the customer regarding any diagnosis re-evaluation and a shared calendar to prompt for the next check-up or drug replenishment.

In the case of an acute emergency setting, after much fidelity of high prediction scores, the alert would be sent out to the patient, the family of the patient and the caregivers. For the patient, we would give a personal call and acquire answers we can relay to the clinic doctors – asking them how they are feeling, if they are having difficulties breathing, what do they do the past days; do they just sleep on the bed all day, why? Did they exercise? What are the limits? Which drugs did they used to compensate? For the family members, we will send them our prediction scores based on the data and let them decide to send a taxi/uber to get them to their clinic / hospital, send a nurse to their home. Alternatively, ambulances and doctors can also be sent with a premium subscription. For the nurses, if they are sent to the clinic / hospital, their whereabouts are updated with an ETA and the predicted health condition so that a ward bed can be prepared beforehand.

We understand that the product may not have an immediate effect on the customer and anticipate the phase where customers would get frustrated and want to complaint. The website will ultimately have a user-friendly interface such as chat support and responsive email or telephone contact. All problems will be addressed and taken into consideration for the next update. After any interaction, whether e.g. the service functions positively or negatively, a one-click rating system of our service is prompted. More importantly, if at anytime the patient feels they want to revoke consent of data collection and analysis, they may do so and we will delete all related information.

After the product has survived a series of drawbacks and solutions, the final stage is to have a sustainable equilibrium. We would continue to develop the product to include further biosensors – blood pressure, temperature, bioimpedance etc.; better batteries; eventually, incorporate nanotechnology and 2D-materials into the product – these will be timely feasible by 2024 [4].

[1] Giamouzis et al. “Hospitalization epidemic in patients with heart failure: Risk factors, risk prediction, knowledge gaps, and future rections,” J Cardiac Failure 17(1), 54-75 (2011)


[3] Access Economics. The shifting burden of cardiovascular disease in Australia.

The Team

We are a team of two PhD students in physics and engineering with advisors in long-term care, anaesthesia and emergency care and chronic care. The dissertations are to be submitted early next year. In this manner, we are able to understand long-term and critical care of patients while being able to visualise, conceptualise and manage the venture spanning a few years.

Chris has extensive background in the field of engineering. His current project is developing model planes that would scale to be able fly from Australia to London in three hours. The model planes are flown in a hypersonic wind tunnel with sensors built in them much like those needed for a heart rate (HR) monitor. He has contacts in defence, a member of AIAA and IMechE and an Oxford alumni. Possible travel and conference grants can be provided here. He is familiar with designs used in patent applications and responsible for protecting technical information under Non-Disclosure Agreements.  He has had regular technical meetings with potential manufacturers to validate their capability to achieve the task and to regularly review their progress for quality control purposes. He also has able to write a technical report that presents the key results in such a way that it can easily be understood by a non-technical audience.

Hud has experience in laser technology engineering and physics. His current project is characterising 2D-materials as a diffusion barrier in semiconductor microelectronics. He has in-depth knowledge on photonics, specifically reflection of light that will be used to measure blood volume for the HR monitor. He also has insight in the future of nanotechnology that will be incorporated in the HR monitor. He is a member of Australian Nanotechnology Network (ANN), and an alumni of Muenster University of Applied Sciences. He is multilingual and has international connections to clinical and biomedical consultants. He has done quality control for adaptive optics and held regular technical meetings with clients.

So far we have made considerable scientific literature review but it is still on-going. We are validating the idea through our customers. We have touched based with our mentor Stephen Hall and would attempt to work in a fortnightly basis. We have advisors Assoc. Prof. Paul Dugdale, The Director of Chronic Disease Management Department of Chronic Care and Dr. Huzaifah Wahab, medical officer with experience in anaesthesia and emergency care.


At this moment we are gathering HR data from established hardware competitors to work on the methodology. We will start looking for more HR data and potential recruits through COTA Australia. More importantly, we are also continuously looking for cardiologists, intensivists and emergency physicians locally for potential collaboration.

Our Partners

Our main focus for now is developing the methodology for data analysis. For now, we are utilising heart rate (HR) data obtained from competitor hardware. We lack realistic data that show heart failure (HF) trends. That is why it is most important that we get in touch with domestic cardiologists, intensivists or emergency physicians to help develop the method here in Australia. We understand that time is scarce in the medical profession. In return, in addition to co-founding the startup, we will turn any collaboration into scientific research.

With this regard, we first aim to build hardware minimum viable product (MVP) or a prototype consisting of a microcontroller, pulse detector, bluetooth module and battery. The hardware is fitted into a 3D-printed case and fitted onto a silicon wrist strap. We aim to have 1000 pieces for initial data collection. It is noteworthy that we are not aiming to compete in hardware and are exploring white-label manufacturers as potential collaborators who can tailor to our specifications. We are also hoping to find such connections through networking in health innovation conferences.

For our initial efforts in software development, we aim to recruit a software engineer on our team. For extra help, we aim to participate with the TechLauncher program from ANU and collaborate with students to help us setup for a year.

In terms of communication channels, we aim to distribute printed material and target audience with interest in family and health in social media ads. Funding to conferences would be the best form of marketing our product. For the distribution of our product, we aim to make hardware product available first through the hospitals, through our website, eBay retailers, and as vendors to electronic shops such as JB Hi-Fi, Harvey Norman and Tech2Go. The application would also be available for download in App Stores or Play Stores.

The primary source of revenue would be the subscription-based service – we propose to keep it at $10/month for the continuous analysis and alert service; $100/year as a loyalty package. With that, our SafeHeart monitor would be distributed free of charge.

We understand that most of these costs will not be covered by the seed grant. If there are however potential collaborators who would invest in us either by providing our project with funding, skills, assets or consultations – connect with us via:


FB   :

Funding Sought

The primary cost for our venture is to build the affordable, reliable HR monitor prototype.

There are still missing costs which are to be updated for the prototype finish, we intend to 3D-print the casing and combine it with a breathable, stretchable fabric. The completed prototype serve as an evidence of our capacity to measure HR reliably at low-cost. We plan to showcase our prototype to local cardiologists, intensivists and emergency physicians through funding for networking at health data conferences, which range between AU$500- AU$1000. We shall begin bulk production scaling sometime mid 2018, which is roughly estimated in the table below from

We would about $500 to register the company, another $300 for trademarking.

This brings the total price relatively close to $10000.

We have decided to utilise local distribution to setup the first working prototype. The material list is in the table below:


/pc (setup,



FTDI breakout board


2. BLE



Pulse sensor



4. Accelerometer






Shipping & GST






Our Partners

We have established partnership with local research doctors in the field of chronic care. Their expertise will substantiate the quality of our analysis, making it trustworthy while increasing the perception of value of wearables.

We are looking to recruit a software engineer and cyber security analyst. We are also planning to submit a proposal to TechLauncher to attain coding skills from students in exchange for their credit points. This is due sometime mid next-year.

We are also planning to start an online study to collect data from wearable users of all platforms and to motivate and spread the word for those who don’t own them. This will help expand and accelerate data collection and increase awareness of the health condition. In return, we will send them a prototype for free inclusive of a months analysis service.

We are aiming to validate potential value exchange with Medicare, health insurance, private insurances, life insurances. The data analysis they receive from us would be used to provide lower premiums for the customers. They could also serve as our distribution channel.

In the far future, we are planning to get our product used in for therapeutic goals in form clinical trials. Once this has matured, we will get in contact with ACT ambulance and Uber. They would deliver us a mode of transport for our customers in return for a new customer segment.

Capturing Value

The direct customers are chronic heart failure (HF) patients and seniors above 60. We would facilitate extrahospital care including an alert system that potentially could prevent HF decompensations and reduce frequency of hospital admissions. We also provide a method to maintain optimal therapy by encouraging both patient and the doctor to be engaged in their health.

People would pay up to about $100 for a reliable diagnostic device. Fitness bands these days are gimmicky, for which most would pay $30 for; Smartwatches like Apple Watch or professional grade trackers for athletes such as Garmin go up above the $450 mark. These are often too much of financial burden especially when coupled with the expensive smartphones that they need to fully appreciate the wearable. Since price is a purchase barrier, SafeHeart monitor would be given for free with our subscription service. We would target $10/month and $100/year for the service. The Safeheart monitors would be delivered with a device encryption that is assigned only to work with our application 1 user at a time. A minimum of 3 months subscription is needed and non-members get limited features.

Customers would get the app for free from the App / Play Stores. The initial costs for our service are covered by the customers, whereas there is a possibility of asking support from the government. Additionally, the subscription plan may be subsidised by health insurance companies in exchange for health data. In the far future, we aim to work cross-platform in providing the long-term care option and the early HF detection alert system to certain platforms we trust.